EP65 - IMPROVISING VOCALIST - Jo Morrison

Jo is an improvising vocalist who grew up in Basildon.. What even is that? Musicians and non-musicians will get together and improvise with voice, sound, objects, instruments. Performing with no rehearsal or planned outcome. Performances can last around 20 minutes, or hours with groups. Catching vibes, catching sounds, and responding to the energy in the room. Setting up spaces with a freedom to fail, and making participants feel comfortable to express themselves naturally. Jo attended a sound art course, and was exposed to improvised vocalists. It is a very inclusive means of expression, the barrier to entry does not exist, no skills are required. Karaoke with the universe. Discovering new facets to your voice during improvisation. There are improvised vocal groups you can attend and join in with. Jo started learning at a short experimental sound art course. Art is making something with artistic intention. Jo learned to capture and make sound with that intention - the course gave Jo the permission they’d been waiting for to make art. Then the artistic journey led to TOMA (The Other MA) in Southend. TOMA is run by Emma Edmonson and provides an alternative to traditional art school with a more financially accessible format. Big up TOMA - they teach artistic practice, but also about applications for funding to build a career in art. Jo encourages people to respond how they want during performances - laughter can be a great sound. Dealing with mixed feedback, and keeping the artist intention pure. Jo occasionally performs in masks and made bee wings from CDs. Big ups to Faradina Afifi. Making up improvised languages. Improvising and doing someone that no person has ever done before. Big up Fraser Merrick (previous guest!) Nick really doesn’t like unexpected participatory vocal improvisation. Derek Bailey’s Channel 4 show about improvisation around the world is a good archive of worldwide sounds. Every voice is unique, and the sounds we can make are there to be played with. Skronk in Deptford is a fun place to go and improvise. Chelmsford chronicle has declared that ‘Sangita Mittra is a creative expert’ - official. 

Jo Morrison on Instagram

Jo at TOMA

Noisy Women Present

Are You Creative? recorded by Adam at Lawker Media, Chelmsford, ESSEX
Edited by Nick Hearne
Artwork by Alpaca Antenna

Don't forget to like, subscribe, share and all the good stuff.

Follow our Instagram for latest news and behind the scenes photos 

Send comments, questions, or suggestions for fascinating creative people in Essex give us a shout on our Instagram

Thanks to NGDA for their support

Transcript

Nick 0:01

I can't move because I'm very special and I've got my own camera. Right? And it's and it's on me. You're okay. You can go where you want, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 0:10

Is that what about like that? That feels a bit better. Is that better? Yeah.

Nick 0:14

I like your what your is your water bottle um deliberately curated to match your jacket?

SPEAKER_07 0:19

Because I think that's um it's not, it's not, but it's such a beautiful. I found it somewhere and it's one of my favourite. Oh, did you? Yeah.

Nick 0:25

Yeah, and it what you just you're just like that resonates. Resonant water.

SPEAKER_07 0:29

And you've got.

Nick 0:31

Hang on, you you could be a Foley artist with this.

SPEAKER_07 0:35

Is that what um Delia Darbashier did as well? Like you you find all sorts of mad things to make sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For film, for anything, like you know, oh, I'd love it.

Nick 0:48

Yeah, my friend Darren used to do it professionally, and he said, like, they had a car door and it was so useful. Just a car door, just and you just hit it with different things, and especially for like you know, medieval stuff, like if you want a suit of armor and a fight. He said the car door was one of the most useful props you could you could get.

SPEAKER_07 1:04

It's weird, isn't it? It's some fancy. I mean, I was I I always zone in on that sound on a train, you know, that bit in the in the middle, yeah where it's all kind of like big plastic kind of things that twist and move and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But really zone into all those kind of sounds.

Nick 1:17

What do you think that would be a good sound follower? Because obviously you can never use the sound of the real thing in Foley. It's got to be like some random thing. Like, is that the sound of Welly Boots like walking in snow or something?

SPEAKER_07 1:28

Could be, yeah, yeah, yeah. It could be. Um, or kind of birdlike, quite bird-like.

Nick 1:34

So um a we like bit what a robot bird.

SPEAKER_07 1:38

A robot bird, maybe, maybe. I like it, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick 1:42

I like it. I I think we're gonna have to just make a film just so we can use this sound.

SPEAKER_07 1:46

Yes, definitely.

Nick 1:47

And it's about a robot bird.

SPEAKER_07 1:48

Yep. A robot bird called Robert.

Nick 1:52

Oh yeah, the robot bird. Yeah, and it robot the robot robin.

unknown 2:00

I love it.

Nick 2:00

Oh, and that's him and and what in in his oiling, does he? He's on red. That's the thing, that's why his tummy's gone red because his oil level's so low. He wants a green tummy. Anyway, look, that's enough of that because I can't I can't cut out welcome back to our creative podcast about creativity in Essex. The greatest county in the world with me. Creative experts, Nick Hearn, and my co-host, Creative Expert, as well, according to the Essex Chronicle today. Sangita X Sangator Expert. Sangita Mitra. Did you see that? I should I should have bought a Chronicle show, local creative expert, Sangita Mitra.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

No way.

Nick 2:45

Hell yeah. Am I in there? It's official, stick it on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Oh my god, I've got to go soon. I need to go buy a copy.

Lora 2:51

The Chronicle's£3.60 now. No way. When did newspapers get£360? How much do I get for that? For them using my name.

Nick 2:58

I know I'm gonna I'm gonna start using it as currency and paying in shops from Essex Chronicles. It's worth more than worth more than the fiver, isn't it?£3.60.

Lora 3:07

Definitely. That's just ridiculous.

Nick 3:08

Yeah, Essex Chronicles, what is going on? Um it's probably because I read it Lonely Sold like five copies or something. Um what was it? We're here, we are here in Law Comedy Studios again. The amazing Law Comedy Studios with Adam Whitaker, the greatest host ever. Absolutely. He makes great films, by the way, everyone. He does, and good podcasts.

Sangita 3:30

Yep.

Nick 3:31

Use him, not that way, but don't abuse him. And we've got another sure you pay him. Oh yeah. Don't talk about paying Adam. You'll get ideas. Um, we've got another amazing creative guest here. We have by the name of Joe Morrison. Joe Morrison. And Joe Morrison, are you from Essex?

SPEAKER_07 3:55

Since the age of seven, yes.

Nick 3:56

Since the age of seven, that's good. You know, well, about nine years then. Um so did you move to Chelmsford?

SPEAKER_07 4:06

I moved, we moved to uh Basildon when I was about seven, uh which was quite uh quite a few years back now. Bas Vegas. Uh Bas Vegas. Um yeah, we moved from kind of um Stamford Hill area. Um and that's good.

Nick 4:22

I mean, I just I just have I I don't need more story because I just have to check for the passport. You know, we just need to stamp your passport in, just make sure that you meet the credentials for the podcast. And the other credentials, I just need to check. Are you creative?

SPEAKER_07 4:34

Yes.

Nick 4:37

Now, a little thing that we like to do here is like Sangator is now going to try and guess what you do creatively. Sangator.

Lora 4:46

Well, I've got to give you a little secret because I did see the mic earlier on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm assuming it is something to do with music, obviously. Could you be storytelling with music?

SPEAKER_07 4:59

In some ways, sometimes.

Nick 5:01

No, just just say what you do. Just say, alright.

SPEAKER_07 5:04

I'm uh I'm an improvising vocalist.

Nick 5:06

Improvising vocalist. Sangita, how I'm looking confused. Yeah, come on. Sangita, this is well out of your wheelhouse.

Lora 5:12

I know a vocalist. I I know the word vocalist.

Nick 5:15

Yeah, well, do you know what you know what voice improvising?

Lora 5:18

You know what improvising means? Yeah. So hold on. Yeah, so there's a vocalist doesn't turn up and then you do their bit, improvising?

SPEAKER_07 5:28

I don't know. No, just a bunch of musicians and non-musicians um get together and we improvise with sounds, with voice, with objects, with instruments. Um and we I guess we just try to find a new beat.

Nick 5:49

So imp you know, when you talk about improvisation, that is just kind of like performing with no rehearsal. Right? Just going with the flow.

SPEAKER_07 5:56

Yeah, going with the flow.

Lora 5:58

So is that what you do? You kind of book a gig and then don't have any practice or yeah.

Nick 6:03

That's amazing. Oh, yeah. But I I I think it's even more exciting than that because you don't really even have a concept of what you're gonna perform, right? It's you you you you're expressing your feelings. You're improvising live.

SPEAKER_07 6:16

Yeah, I mean, sometimes you might edit a couple of objects or something, or I might edit a couple of objects because I kind of I love to play with toys and and you know, just random things and stuff that makes sound. Um, and then I might sometimes I take like a whole suitcase of stuff and different microphones, but recently I've quite enjoyed the idea of of editing, um, so that I have to just focus on kind of like one or two things and really kind of work to get sounds out of those things.

Nick 6:47

That's amazing. And how how long would an improvised performance, improvised vocal performance, last well?

SPEAKER_07 6:54

Generally, um it's probably about 20-25 minutes. Yeah, um, but sometimes you go to places that you know, like there's this thing called the gathering where loads of improvisers get together, um, and it goes on for like maybe two or three hours.

Lora 7:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 7:12

What just random just random stuff and then you kind of catch a catch something, catch a vibe, catch a sound, and then you um, you know, sometimes it goes really quiet, even like the tiniest sound can kind of like pull all of the I don't know, the energy or something into that kind of way, then it can go a little bit mad.

Nick 7:34

Does it feel like you know, like you're like a sort of group organism and you know, like it's just it's got its own life and it's going its own ways?

SPEAKER_07 7:40

Definitely when it when it really gets exciting, that's when it kind of you know becomes something. Um because I guess it's about listening as well as expressing.

Nick 7:51

Can I can I ask a weird question here? Do you think like because I always feel like when I'm jamming with people because I don't play drums, right? I always feel like there's this weird other like sense, like this brainwave that goes in between people, and you know you sort of feel where to go and you feel when to stop and start.

SPEAKER_07 8:05

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think it's just kind of just tapping into it, really, and just maybe relaxing into it. And also your previous guest was talking about, you know, just the freedom to fail. Yeah, and it's kind of approaching it in that way. Um, and I mean, there's one there was one um improviser that's been doing it for a long time, and I heard him say that you just basically turn up somewhere and you have to be prepared to make a bit of a fool of yourself sometimes.

Nick 8:33

Yeah, just leave your ego at the door, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:36

Yeah.

Nick 8:41

So saying so, Sangator, imagine this. Yeah, I know we're gonna book you in for a gig, right? Imagine if you literally just turned up and you didn't have a clue what you were gonna do, got on the stage, grabbed the mic, and just started making noises.

Lora 8:53

Or singing. I'm just in shock.

SPEAKER_07 8:55

So that's an actual role. It's an actual job. It's an actual role. I mean, I I I was surprised about it as well because um I came a I came across it um I think it was about six, seven years ago, I went to this sound art course, and that's when this this teacher showed us a clip of some vocalizing um some improvisers, improvising vocalists, and uh I'd never seen anything like it because they're usually kind of you know, sounds that you that you don't normally make in public.

Nick 9:32

Okay. Where would you make it like in your car when you're on the motorway or something?

SPEAKER_07 9:36

You know, and it just you know, just different kind of just it's kind of like woven with you know, just normal kind of human sounds with other kind of things, you know. Um it's very strange. It's very strange listening to my voice, actually.

Nick 9:54

Is it um because it is funny, you know, like we you know, when I'm driving around, I like I love like just making silly noises and things like that. And um, you know, if you're under an archway, you know, like say like channel's viaduct, you know, channels of viaduct, you go under the arch and you're suddenly, oh, it's got reverb, and you start going, whoop, ah, you know, making those noises that you would never make and enjoying like how the sounds play with a space. And you know, you just start experimenting with your voice, don't you? Have you ever done that? I haven't, but I'm gonna try to get arrested. Have you ever been to you know a quarry or a cliff or something where you get an echo? Yes. Yes, that I have that I have, yeah. So that that's kind of just that feels like improvising vocals in in your situation, it's just expressing how you feel and playing with what noises you can make.

SPEAKER_07 10:41

Yeah. Wow, yeah, definitely. So it it can be really uh inclusive in that way. So, you know, there was this particular um uh improviser that I found out about, and he created this thing called the feral choir. He ended up sort of going to many places all over the world and stuff, and it was just to invite people that wouldn't normally see themselves as musical, wouldn't normally see themselves as having a good voice, and and suddenly they're doing it. Uh you know, they're just kind of like quite powerful.

Nick 11:15

I mean, how would you sign up for something like this? Because I love these like accessible things that people for people that aren't artists that can just just get involved, you know. It's like the people that the bloke that's like, I'm gonna take a photo of a thousand nude people and on the beach and you're just gonna turn up and do the thing. It's like accessible art for people that don't have like tangible artistic skill.

SPEAKER_07 11:32

Exactly, yeah, because I think um that's when you really can get into things. I think when you experience things in your own body, in your own mind and stuff, then it it starts to um become less intimidating and and everybody feels like they they can kind of have a go, really.

Nick 11:51

How did it feel, you know, that the first time you got on a stage and you picked up a mic? Because you you know, you just said to me, Oh, it feels really funny hearing my voice in my headphone. And I remember the first time I got on a stage to do a gig and I said something on a mic, and then I heard a little reverb coming back from the back of the room. And I could hear my own voice a little bit, and it just shook me. Like I just I got such bad angst. It takes ages to get over that and to and to and to carry on.

SPEAKER_07 12:16

So it's weird, yeah, because I do a lot of performing, but I feel slightly nervous, I've got to say.

Nick 12:23

But when when so when the like that first time you grabbed a mic and when you're on stage and you heard your amplified voice, yeah, and there were people there. How how did that feel for you?

SPEAKER_07 12:31

Oh, it felt great, it felt great. But I first got invited to this place in Cambridge, actually, part of the noisy women present, and they just kind of set up this thing, and someone was just so encouraging and so inviting, and I said, I've never done anything like that before. Who said, Yeah, don't worry about it. Come along, come along, we look after you. And it was in a church in Cambridge, and I remember um I found this cowbell in the corner in a box, so I just started to make horse sounds in the cowbell, and um, and and I remember thinking, what is it I want to do now that I can do anything, basically? Because there's no there was no rules, and no one said you can't do this, you go, you know, you just feel your way through it, and so um it was it was exciting, it was is it was liberating, um, and suddenly there was like a whole world of possibility.

Lora 13:24

It's the second time we've heard that today, isn't it?

Nick 13:27

Well, I think I think what's really interesting about you know doing improvised vocalizations, yeah. You know, we are born with this ability to make a sound, yeah, and it's really interesting that you know there's the I talk about minimum viable products a lot of time for creativity. This is like the lowest thing, you know, you don't need anything else. It's so cool, you could just start doing it anywhere. Yeah, it's like karaoke just with a universe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 13:53

Yeah, yeah, I like that. Do you sing? I sing, I sing, so I I can kind of so sometimes I weave sort of just you know, um, straight ahead vocals, you know, um and I I just like a mixed bag really, but I find the more I improvise with kind of um what some people might might see as unusual sounds, it kind of helps me with the other sort of stuff as well. It kind of I don't know, it's makes me see things in a fresh kind of way.

Nick 14:35

Um do you discover um you know new new elements to your voice on your new um yeah?

SPEAKER_07 14:43

Definitely it was mad. You know what what's happened recently has just been crazy because a few people think I'm an opera singer. Oh because I've kind of I mean I've you know, and and this is just because I've been in spaces where you can be as loud as you want, as quiet as you want, really kind of go you know, wherever. And um I started to do these kind of really high-pitched sounds and stuff because I thought they were quite comical. Yeah, but actually, you know, I found that I could sing in a way that I didn't realise I could sing.

Nick 15:20

That's amazing. And you discovered that during an improvisation with people there, yeah, yeah.

Lora 15:25

That is just phenomenal.

Nick 15:27

I'm liking this. Can you sing Sangator?

Lora 15:29

No, but I want to go to one of these and just sing. I think this is. I love to sing.

Nick 15:33

I think this is one of the brilliant things about it because there's no right or wrong. Exactly that.

SPEAKER_07 15:38

Exactly that.

Lora 15:39

That's what I'm getting from this.

SPEAKER_07 15:40

That and that is why that whole world was so brilliant or is so brilliant for me, because I was always quite fearful, I think, of what's right and what's wrong. And um, so then when I was in a world where that just didn't that wasn't there, um it it just once that was taken away, I thrived. That is I just thrived.

Lora 16:04

Liberation, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:06

It is liberation music, definitely.

Nick 16:08

So, how would uh you know if Sankita wanted to go along and uh and jam with the noisy women, for example? Uh you know, are there local groups for like improvisation? You know, I don't know. This is a world I'm not aware of at all.

SPEAKER_07 16:19

Yeah, there's lots of things, loads of things that I can and I'll I can send you. Well, are you in Chelmsford? Not in Chelmsford at the moment, but there is um I mean there's improvise gigs that you can go and watch, for example, in Leon Cisherman's Chapel, um, called Constructing Sounds. They've been going for the last couple of years now, so I've performed there a couple of times. But in terms of um just doing it, I mean I'd be happy to get together with you anytime and just kind of just play around with some sounds.

Nick 16:52

And this is the thing, is you you know, you don't need a venue, you don't need any permission, don't need anything. You could go to the middle of the park, yeah, and just and just start doing it.

SPEAKER_07 16:59

Yeah, yeah. And and that's what happens actually. There's there's something called no computers that takes place once a month um outside of church in Stonk Newington, and and that's exactly what it is. You do, you know, there's there's a there's a kind of um um what do they call it? A like a main set, and then everybody's in invited to just get involved and play sounds, and so sometimes families walk by and they kind of get involved. Obviously, kids love it.

Nick 17:27

Yeah, I bet. But but this this is the great thing about kids because kids don't have that adult ego. Yes, where you know, where they're scared of uh you know making a noise or getting on something, and you know, it's just pure joy, isn't it? And and we sort of get beaten out of us as we get older, you know. You know, don't or don't make a fool of yourself, don't you know, don't do that.

Lora 17:45

You know, this is how you behave, or this is what good singing sounds like, and then you have to be an adult and then go and find a career like this to be able to relive some of that I can do what I want, or sound how I want, or that's amazing.

Nick 17:59

This is this is the remarkable thing I think about Joe because you this is only a bit quite a relatively recent discovery for you. Yeah, and I I believe did you tell me you hadn't sung before or you hadn't been in a band or anything?

SPEAKER_07 18:11

I hadn't been in a band. Um that first time I went, which was uh I don't know, like four or five years ago when I was invited. Um no, never been in a band. Always wanted to to kind of do that kind of stuff, but um I'd be like, what stopped what stopped you before?

Nick 18:31

Or did you not even consider doing it?

SPEAKER_07 18:34

I just I suppose I just didn't, I wasn't in the right um environments really where where kind of things were. It may have been, but I mean I mean I used to do like karaoke every now and again and stuff like that, and I still love a bit of karaoke.

Nick 18:48

You'd be great at Bjork at karaoke now, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_07 18:50

At Biork, yeah, mate. Um, but I I um I I think I just needed to be around the right environment, the right people. You know, I was really I've been really fortunate to to sort of meet loads of people who encourage, and you know, uh one particular person I'm thinking of who was just so persistent in kind of inviting me here, there, and everywhere.

Nick 19:18

You can say their name.

SPEAKER_07 19:19

Yeah, Farah, Faradina Rafifi. We're we're Farah. Faradina Rafifi, one of the founders of the noisy women present. So Faradina Rafifi.

Nick 19:28

Don't say three times. It's not improvising.

SPEAKER_07 19:34

I know, I know you'll love that, Farah.

Nick 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 19:36

Three times Farah.

Nick 19:43

So I I think you know, when I when I talked to you before, I was really interested because you said that you went to um Southend and you were on Toma? Yes. So so tell us about Toma, because this is how your whole journey started, right?

SPEAKER_07 19:57

No, it's not how my whole journey started. It's um the improvised music scene was was how my my how it all started. I went to a sound art course about just when COVID um sort of just before COVID uh struck. And there I was introduced to elements of the improvised music scene, um, and then just got in touch with people.

Nick 20:20

What is what is just let's just back up there. What is the sound art course?

SPEAKER_07 20:24

It was the it was a it was a short experimental sound art course where we're introduced to certain elements of that particular kind of world and certain um uh performers and stuff, and and then you know Graham had like a whole cupboard full of um cassette players, for example, yeah, and then he we were invited to just go and find a place within um the building, record something, we all come back, we listen to it.

Nick 20:53

Uh we just basically get going with things and just uh So unders understanding how you can capture sound, how you can manipulate sound, how you can that's it, yeah, that's it, yeah. And I think you know, when you were because we we had that discussion, you know, what is art, you know, and you're saying that art's anything done with an artistic intention.

SPEAKER_07 21:11

It's all about intention, definitely. Because, like, I mean, some people um say it say that about uh sort of a lot of abstract stuff, like, oh I can do that, and that and you say, Yeah, that's that's that's what's so wonderful about it, but can you do it with intention? Yeah, because that's what changes it.

Nick 21:28

Yes, and and and a sound becomes sound art when you've just had the intention of capturing it for art or making it for art.

SPEAKER_07 21:34

Exactly. It is it is um having the confidence really to to to not, you know, um it's not good to sort of take yourself too seriously, but but you can take, you know, whatever it is you're trying to do kind of not quite seriously, but you know, to just give it the the right attention.

Nick 21:55

Um I suppose and that's it just elevating and declaring, you know, this is this this here. It's a piece of art because I'm doing it with the intention of it being an artistic performance.

SPEAKER_07 22:03

Yeah, there's no, you know, there's I think for for many years in my life, I was probably just waiting around for someone to say, Oh yeah, you're allowed to do that now. We we we think you're you're good enough. And and and this was an artist now, you know.

Nick 22:15

And this was the sound art course that gave you that permission?

SPEAKER_07 22:18

The sound art course gave me an introduction, and then I joined an online thing called the Groningen Vocal Exploration Choir, which is based in the Netherlands.

Sangita 22:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 22:31

Um, and I did that for quite a while, and then I quite naively said, Is there anybody in the UK that does this? And they were like, Yeah, you know, and then you know they're all linked up, and and then that's when they said, you know, contact Faradina Rafifi.

Nick 22:53

Do you know you don't remember people are talking about you somewhere else?

SPEAKER_07 23:00

Yeah, so and and and that's what I did, and then it just went oh wow, you know, my whole life changed.

Nick 23:07

And um so Toma is the other MA, is that what it stands for?

SPEAKER_07 23:12

Yes, Toma stands for the other MA, based in South End, um founded by Emma Edmondson, I think about 2016.

Nick 23:22

Brilliant. And uh so what does what does Toma do?

SPEAKER_07 23:25

Toma is a Toma is an art school, an alternative art school, and um it's run exactly the same way, well, if not better, than than most kind of institutional masters uh courses, art courses. Um, but it's very, very um accessible, it's very fairly priced, it's very um what's it called? Um supportive, massively supportive, and and that can continue. They believe in lifelong education.

Nick 24:02

Um so it's making art accessible for everyone because you know there has there has been a lot of things recently where art is for the rich people, you know, it it's it's a hobby, you know, it's like uh and um it becomes so hard to do for people that that I mean with the cost of living and stuff.

SPEAKER_07 24:19

It does, yeah. It was it was a response. I mean, actually, it started off as Emma's um art practice, yeah. You know, uh building these kind of ideas of um an education model, basically.

Nick 24:30

So you went to Toma in South End.

SPEAKER_07 24:33

I went to Toma in South End. I finished their I think it was November last year. That's when we finished.

Nick 24:40

I think you uh you know, you told me uh previously, you know, you went to Toma and you said, you know, can can I can I can I do experimental vocalization as art?

SPEAKER_07 24:50

Oh oh yeah, well what I did was I went to their open um day because I because I kept seeing this word Toma, and I also went to one of Ignite's um talks in Chelmsford, yeah, and Lou Williams, who has her um the zine, the zine uh and so she's in the same space where Toma is, and and she at one point um in her talk she said, you know, because you all know you you know Toma, right? And everybody in the audience were like, Yeah, yeah, we know Toma. I don't know Toma, and I don't know why I didn't say, you know, what's that and stuff, but it's good because it kind of made me want to know what it was and why did everybody know it, and I didn't. And um, and so uh I went to the open day because I because I looked on the website and I still wasn't familiar with ArtSpeak, if you like. There was a lot of art speaker stuff. It's really, you know, it's a it's a good kind of website and stuff, but it was I just wasn't familiar with some of the language. So, and I just kept thinking, is it for me though? Is it for me? I still don't understand. So I went to the open day that they had online and I spoke to Emma, and that's when I said, Well, my practice is experiment in my voice. Could I start there? And she was like, Yeah, yeah, of course, come and have a chat with us, like you know, and um and so I kind of you know had uh I did like a little bit of a performance and stuff for my interview. Yeah, and um that must have blown their minds. Um well they they they seem to like it, yeah.

Lora 26:23

Oh, that is just phenomenal. Wow. So you find this this stuff that you now want to do. So how do you what's your daily like when when you're going out to find things to do, as in paid work, do you get is this like a career for you now, or is it just like a hobby?

SPEAKER_07 26:46

There's it's it's a way of life, it's definitely my my main way of life and stuff. Um, but unfortunately, because it's very niche, there's there's not much money in it, right? Um, and um, but you know, I'm kind of just learning really through Toma. It's been like uh seeing another side of sort of you know applying for grants and all that kind of stuff. So that's gonna help me in some ways to try to that's that's incredible.

Nick 27:16

So not only do they teach you about artistic practice, but they teach you about how to apply to fund yourself as well.

Lora 27:21

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Nick 27:22

That's so I wouldn't have to be a big thing. That's right. I've asked Emma to come on the podcast. She will be joining us at some point. Yeah, but um she's a little bit busy, she's copying, she's got a lot, she's got a lot of stuff going on, but she don't lie, she knocked you back. She did it, she did it, she was in a nice reply, but she'll be coming. But but I think that's so important because um applying for funding is impenetrable, you know, it's really hard for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_07 27:47

Of course. Oh, it's massive. I mean, I yeah, I mean, I mean, I just got onto a very short uh residency at Athona community. Do you know the Athona community at Bradwell on Sea? It's it's an intentional community that's been there since the 40s. It's a fantastic place. Um and uh they've had quite a few artists in residence there. It's it's it's a really good spot for that. But anyway, because their sort of um the form was quite, you know, that they wanted it to be quite simple and kind of they didn't want loads and loads of information. I was able to also call them and have a chat, which worked for me because it it was slightly different from most of the other forms that I've seen, which which, you know, is you've got to fill it with a lot of art speak, haven't you? You've got to, and also as well, but there's things called um um Toma taught us about this thing called the uncultured, I think it's called, and they help people filling in those forms basically. You know, so there's all these kinds of things.

Nick 28:51

Is that another one name for Chat GPT?

SPEAKER_07 28:54

A human version.

Nick 28:57

Because that has made filling in forms so much better.

SPEAKER_07 29:02

But um, yeah, so that will be another that's been really good to find out about that side of things because um really with the improvise kind of music scene and all that kind of thing, the d the DIY performance culture, all that kind of thing, is um you know, it's art music and it's all you know, and we'd I just need to, I guess, learn how to um yeah, learn how to I don't really know what to say, really. Just learn how to grow it. We're we're both in like learn how to learn how to learn how to create suspense.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Turn out a turn for that one, Jay.

Nick 30:00

One of the things that fascinated me when we had a chat, right? You said when you perform, you say to people, you can react how you want. If you find this funny, you can laugh, you know, or you know, you'll sit here quietly, just respond how you want. And I think for an artist to feel like it's okay to be laughed at is very difficult. That's a difficult emotion to deal with, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:22

But it's a great sound laugh.

Nick 30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:25

I mean, I we you know, I it's a it's a it's it's strange, you know, because it's one of the sounds that most humans are quite uh sort of comfortable about sharing, and it's such a unique sound. Everyone's got these kind of like so so actually it's also a way of of responding to a sound in this case, you know.

Nick 30:50

I suppose if a lot of people laugh out of like nervousness or uncomfortableness, or if they see something they don't understand, and it's a social way of dealing with it, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:58

And also some of it can be funny. I was gonna say it wants to be quite you know, uh quite funny. That's um it's quite nice to have um an element of that. So sometimes, like toys, for example, toys will make it seem a bit more kind of like oh okay, they're not taking themselves too seriously, I can kind of relax a little bit, you know. Um, well that's how I see it anyway. I don't want to sound like a uh an expert in this field. Well it's it's your field now, it is my field, but but you know, relatively um relatively new to it.

Nick 31:32

Yeah, so how um you know when you start performing and yeah, I I know you've because you've you have even been down to the electric electronic music open mic, the emoji. And and and I suppose you know, for people that are down there with their bleeps and their blobs, and they're used to like hearing the the synths and stuff, and then you start performing just you know vocally, yeah, it's something lots of people have never experienced before and don't know how to react to.

SPEAKER_07 31:55

I had a lovely chat with a woman after one of the performances once. It was when I started to do some solo stuff there, and I was bringing in like electric massages and my little lamp and toys and all sorts of things jumping around as well as kind of vocalizing. And I always remember had a really refreshing chat with a woman in the audience, and uh she said, Can I can I talk to you about can I talk to you about that? So, yeah, and she said, Um, if you don't mind me saying, um I I liked it and then I didn't like it. I liked it and then I didn't like it. And I was like, Yeah, that's fine. I I think that's great.

Nick 32:33

I mean, she was nervous about giving you that feedback.

Lora 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 32:36

I don't know whether she was nervous, but she she I just loved her the way that someone just wanted to have a chat with it. Yeah chat chat about it, like you know, and because I think, you know, that's what I've learned really. When I've if I've if ever I've kind of gone into a place that I don't know or or or a vibe that I didn't know, I try to just um think, okay, just just let yourself be in that space. I don't have to talk about it, I don't have to try to talk about something that I don't understand, maybe, but I can just experience it and see where that experience takes me.

Nick 33:10

How do you feel? You know, like if someone says to you, Oh, I liked it and then I didn't like it, you're not gonna grab onto that and be like, Oh, I'm gonna do more of the bits that they liked, because actually the fact that they didn't like some of the bits is gives you that contrast and that makes it art beyond, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:23

No, I think I think that's right. And it's um because it's it is very much about trying not to um want to please too much, but you you don't want to make it well, I don't want to make it completely alienated, um, but but I also don't want to people please for sure.

Nick 33:44

No, but so you're you're performing more for yourself than for a crowd anyway, because it's a statement of your feeling at that time.

SPEAKER_07 33:50

I guess so. Yeah, I I I suppose so, but it can it can it's potentially cathartic for for an audience. So that's that's the thing that really interests me, and that's why I also got into costume and masks and all that kind of stuff, because that's also yeah.

Lora 34:10

Nick's face is just lit up.

Nick 34:13

Look, Sangeta, Sagita. You know, mask masked music is my favourite music. Yeah, yeah, it is. Come on, you got you gotta take this. I I find out about these masks.

Lora 34:25

Go on, tell us about these masks.

SPEAKER_07 34:27

Um, I think um I'm gonna have to mention her again, I'm sorry, but Faradina Rafifi. We've got to meet she. Oh, your lover, your lover. But um, she uh she so I'm also in this thing called the London Improvisers Orchestra. So that's exactly what it is. It's a big, big kind of group of people improvising with different um instruments and stuff, and it's a mixture of of that freeform stuff with kind of loosely composed or conducted pieces and stuff weaved throughout it. And um one of the where was it? I can't remember whether the bee come first or the fly, but basically I was invited to create a yeah, a bee costume, a queen bee costume for something, so I just got right into it, and um and that's exactly what I did. I just kind of played around with this mask, um, and I got myself one of those hoops, you know, and again, and um and I walked past the charity shop in Gallywood at Christmas time, and somebody had put in the window um like a big cracker, a big Christmas cracker made with C D C D's and stuff.

Nick 35:54

Oh, brilliant. So so that would look like a volunteer have made it or something like that.

SPEAKER_07 35:58

And um, so I went in there and I said, Can I do you mind if I have that at the end? Because I was thinking, these are gonna make brilliant bee wings.

Lora 36:05

Oh, wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 36:06

And so uh, yeah, so that's what I did. I kind of created this stuff, and then I I I told the woman as well. I've I'm sitting in contact with that woman and I showed her the pictures of her work on, you know, and which she absolutely loved. Yeah, and I turned them into bee wings and they just were fantastic, particularly in this one place I performed in Canterbury. I was moving around just because there were such nice lights, the the the CDs were really kind of creating this nice effect.

Nick 36:34

And do you cut do you cover your face as well in that in in that? You know, you talk about masks as well.

SPEAKER_07 36:38

Yes, yeah, I cover my my face quite a lot.

Nick 36:41

So when so when the sounds are coming out of your mouth and stuff, and people don't have any sort of frame of reference for like what you look like or who you are, yeah, exactly. They're totally stripped of that identity.

SPEAKER_07 36:51

Yeah, and then people can put people can kind of make up their own stories, which again is is potentially really freeing for people. And this happened once I was I was in the costume and the mask and stuff, and I was doing this I was I was vocalizing in a way that sounds a bit like a conversation, it sounds a bit like a language, but it's but it's no language, it's just the the sound of it. And so afterwards people sort of came up to me and they said, What what was that you were were saying? Was it Japanese? And then somebody else said, Oh, I thought it was French, and I thought, I love that. Yeah, because of course, maybe that's what they needed or wanted to hear and see at that moment.

Nick 37:35

Maybe you were channeling spirits anyway, you just don't know.

SPEAKER_07 37:38

Yeah, that's right. But it worked. Come on, the spirits, yeah, come through.

Nick 37:43

They came in for your CD wings, and you're resonating with the universe and uh talking some forgotten languages.

SPEAKER_07 37:51

But no, I so I love that, and then that led to you know creating this this fly mask, this this fly costume for the London Improvisers Orchestra to accompany um a poet. Um and um and then it just went on from there, really, and I just I just really got interested in that. But sometimes I like to go also without any of that, just to kind of experience what that feels and how that changes for me and maybe for all.

Nick 38:21

Just to get raw, raw feedback and so yeah, because I feel like I perform in a mask as well, and I feel like um it strips you of your ego of any of needing anyone to find you attractive or like you or anything like that because it's a character. Exactly. It's so freeing on stage, but sometimes, yeah. I think without now if I was just me on stage, I would be terrified. Because I'm used to that safety net of a character.

Lora 38:44

You mean if you took off the mask and you was on stage, that would be a good one.

Nick 38:48

Yeah, just Nick, because because if they don't if they don't like the stuff, they don't like Nick. Yeah, got it. It's not that they don't like the character, yeah, got you.

SPEAKER_07 38:54

There's that, but also as well, it comes with a lot of language, you know. When you when you haven't when I haven't got nothing on, I feel that it everything kind of comes with so much language, and I have to think about sort of I don't know, I might I might overthink, you know, what my face is doing, if you like, and what language it's giving out. So the mask kind of helps me to to just not not have to worry about that.

Lora 39:19

Yeah, that's a lot of pressure off, actually, when you have got a costume on.

SPEAKER_07 39:23

Definitely. I recommend it to lots of people, actually, and especially if you're kind of quite nervous about being on a stage and you just want to kind of relax into it, just just yeah.

Nick 39:32

So we get we're gonna see you on the masked singer, is like something like some like some like crazy fly gonna come on and start improvising in between thermo leary and candy or something.

SPEAKER_05 39:44

Possibly, possibly, yeah.

Nick 39:46

Can you can you imagine just blow everyone's mind completely? We have no frame of reference for this.

SPEAKER_07 39:53

It's so interesting that you say about the frame of reference because um I think that's what's in really interesting about improvised music and you know, I I guess masks and costume, all that kind of stuff. If if you have no frame of reference, that's when new things can be born, basically, and in in anybody's mind watching it or or being part of it. Um it completely um can get rid of all sorts of structures that we've been, you know, um that we've been around for many, many years.

Nick 40:33

I I love that when you know, especially for improvising, you're just totally inventing something new constantly.

SPEAKER_07 40:40

Yeah.

Nick 40:40

Something that maybe no one's ever done before.

SPEAKER_07 40:42

Yeah, and you can't kind of you know, it's it's I guess it's kind of trying not to feel that you've got to capture something all the time so that you have to do it again. Even though that can become tempting, especially if you feel that something you go, wow, like you know, I like the sound of that. Yeah, yeah. But it's quite nice to just kind of just let it go. I mean, obviously it's nice to have recordings, there's there's loads of recordings of improvised music. Um but uh in the end, it's just nice to just turn up somewhere, go, okay, I'll just try to be as present as I can and just just feel my way through it. And that is kind of just heaven to me, really. Because I I I just remember sort of just thinking, oh my god, this is so great. That's all I have to, I don't have to. And also, I think you know, when I was younger, I think I probably compromised a bit too much, and I think I and when you do that, sometimes it's very difficult to know exactly you know who you are and what you want to do. And with the improvised um uh performances, I can be sure that that was my that was my uh thought, that was my feeling, that was my choice, that was my choice.

Nick 42:01

I was I was reading something earlier on about um getting older and how how much less shiver you give when when you know when you when you get older, especially like after 40, apparently, and how freeing it is, you know. Not I mean it you can get too radically honest, you know, with people and stuff, but I think that you know, having that artistic honesty of performing for yourself and not trying to please everyone, oh yeah, and not trying to repeat something that's gone really well and got a big reaction.

SPEAKER_07 42:29

I mean, I remember when I first started to get into it and then and then really um you go for like I went through I think a very naive stage and then suddenly realizing that it was this scene and there was obviously some very, very good um improvisers and stuff, and I didn't want all of that to get in the way of still doing it. Yeah, and I remember thinking to myself, well, you just have to be kind of and I chatted to someone, I said, you know, uh if you put yourself on a stage, people will think things, but uh it's not gonna kill you, you know. And actually, when you if you're doing something that that um is expected to get different kinds of um uh responses, you know, good and bad, um then also that's a really good way of just doing what you want to do, yeah, because it's expected, but there is there's enough of us who love it, yeah. So we've got the community, so I'll all we'll always be parts.

Nick 43:25

And a respectful community of listeners as well as performers, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:28

Yeah.

Nick 43:29

Wow. That's what I love about jam nights sometimes because the whole audience is just people waiting to jam, but everyone's respectful and appreciating each other's craft and vibing off of it.

SPEAKER_07 43:38

Yeah, exactly. No, it's uh it's a brilliant thing, brilliant thing, but you know, I just I brought in something to show you um because I did because I I listened to the podcast that you did with Fraser Merrick, which was great.

Nick 43:52

Photon Smasher.

SPEAKER_07 43:54

Photon Smasher, yes, vote on Smasher. So he he um he put On a workshop at Constable Ambisonic. Have you heard of Con Constable Ambisonic? No. So that's um another st um Essex-based uh sound artist, Stu Bauditch. It's his his um his project. Anyway, so uh Fraser did a workshop there and he introduced me to these or introduced us to these um electromagnetic um something or other. I never know the name of it.

Nick 44:28

Hey listeners, I've just got to tell you, like Joey has just got uh Joe because you're probably not watching this on video. Joe has got a little box out. It looks like a like sort of like 1980s walkboard. Well, I was gonna say that. It's got a it's and in the headphone socket, it's got like a this little black thing that looks like a sucker. You know, it looks like you're gonna suck it onto a surface. And we are about to find out what this does. So tell us what it's called again, electromagnetic.

SPEAKER_07 44:55

I can never remember the name, but um it's like a contact mic, you know.

Nick 44:59

It's the Electro Funk 5000. Yeah, let's have a go.

SPEAKER_07 45:05

Can you can I have your phone for a second? Of course, because depending on which phone it is, sometimes you get really nice.

Nick 45:12

Oh, that's good. Right, Joe. So Joe is now gonna stick this sucker onto Sangeita's phone. She's actually stealing on her Bitcoin right now. That's what the whole thing is about. Sangita, you've got no crypto left. That's okay. Oh, this is cool. So this is getting the the This is getting all my PIN numbers, everything. Yeah. Oh no, it's got all your nudes now as well.

SPEAKER_07 45:33

Oh damn! Let's see what the back's like. It's a little bit. This is interesting.

Nick 45:39

So you need anything that's got electricity going through it. This will be. And what have you been jamming with that? Have you been doing vocal uh performances with that as well?

SPEAKER_07 45:51

Um sometimes I use stuff like that. Um but I haven't really I haven't really started to to uh to fully explore that in terms of performance, yeah.

Nick 46:06

But but I love this, you know, like that is an instrument you can't really control, you know. It's it's responding to what you've got around you, so any performance with it is always gonna be different. It's like people talk about the feramin, you know the feromin? Yeah, with the you know, the it's like a it's like an aerial that sticks up and one side controls the pitch, one controls the volume. And you can never perform the same performance twice on it. Because it is it yeah, it's it's it's it's freaky. It's freaky. Yeah, I don't know how to describe it, it's freaky, it's freaky. But that's why you get the BBC radio, radio sonic um thing. You know, it's on it's on the Beach Boys, um God only knows, isn't it? Yes, it has a little solo on it and stuff like that, but um it's something like that.

SPEAKER_07 46:50

Yeah, yeah. Love it. But you know, um, you know, can we try something?

Nick 46:56

Yeah. I really don't like it. I really don't like it. It's triggering my autism. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_05 47:51

Oh gosh, but I love it. What don't you like about it?

Nick 47:56

I just really appreciate it. Honestly. No, no, no, no. Do you know what? Almost I do not like I do not like forced participation in things.

SPEAKER_07 48:11

I'm glad that you there was that we had that kind of element from you.

Nick 48:14

I think I've I think if this had been an orc organic happening, I would have done it, but I felt like I felt compelled to partake and I didn't like it. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

I'm out on this one.

Lora 48:31

I'm all laughed out.

Nick 48:33

I know, it's terrifying, isn't it?

Lora 48:34

But you know that it's one of those things like they say like if if you've got no more laugh left.

Nick 48:39

If you if you're if you are feeling if you're feeling sad, apparently you can fake a smile anyway. Yes. And it releases the hormones which will make you feel happier. And really. Yeah, if you even if you're feeling really sad to be of course, and I'm sad. And it's the same with laughter as well. Like, I think you can you can fake a smile or you can fake a laugh and it will make you feel better. It's science fact.

SPEAKER_07 49:02

Oh, yeah, that's the thought behind laughter yoga.

Nick 49:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:05

That's so laughter yoga is literally that. People come together, they fake laugh laugh for for a long time, and it actually usually goes into real laughter, and it's just this massive cathartic thing.

Nick 49:19

Um I would hate that so much.

Lora 49:21

Can you lose calories with laughing?

Nick 49:23

Probably. Yeah, that's it. I'll be laughing. Oh my god, you're gonna Sangeta diet. You're laughing the whole time.

Lora 49:31

This is today tonight's been funny.

Nick 49:33

Sageta, you are pretty much the easiest person I know to make laugh, I think.

Lora 49:38

Honestly. Yeah. No, that was funny. Wow, well done, yeah. Thank you. I feel good. I feel happy. Yeah, I just don't like compulsion. Nick doesn't feel happy. I just don't like happy.

Nick 49:46

I don't like compulsory fun.

SPEAKER_07 49:48

I know, that's just me trying to kind of get it. I don't like dancing.

Nick 49:51

You know, you know, you know, if some when someone's like, hey, come on, have a dance instead of I dance when I want to dance. I don't feel like dancing.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

I'll be yeah in my name.

Nick 50:03

Sorry, look, you've made me angry.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Good, good. That's an emotion. Yeah, bring it back. She's accepted.

Nick 50:14

Yeah. Oh my god. It's improvised emotion. Hey, Sakira, it's a journey. Look at you, you're crying.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I'm telling you. You're crying. I'm so glad I came with tissues today on some.

Nick 50:29

I I really love, you know, when you hear a vocal performance you haven't heard before, like throat singing or something like that. And I suppose are you constantly like studying, like finding different like vocalizations and different ways of making noises that people meet around the world?

SPEAKER_07 50:43

Yeah, just in a kind of like, you know, just a sort of relaxed kind of way. And you I just naturally see things come up, or someone will say something, or you know, and um it is amazing. Let me tell you this actually, for anyone that might want to find more out about this. In the 90s, someone called Derek Bailey made a programme for channel four called um uh improvisation music on the edge, or something like that, where he he did just that, he went all over the world because you know, obviously, improvisation goes right back, and it's it goes on within sacred music, within um all sorts of obviously free jazz and all that kind of stuff, and there's some some brilliant footage of of all sorts of worldwide sounds and sights, and uh it's I really recommend it.

Nick 51:40

Yeah, can sorry, my um I I once went to this festival with this really good beatboxer, like it wasn't performing, I went with him, and I was like, I was like, how much of that's the tricks in the mics, mic, and he and he he did like a didgeridoo and a drumbeat and vocal and singing at the same time with no mic or anything, just in front of me. And I was like, How the hell can you do that? And it's just like it's it's making different bits of vocal different sounds in with different bits of your mouth and your throat and stuff like that, and it really blew my mind because I thought there must be some little trick to it or something. Can you make two sounds at once? Um I'm challenging you now. This one that is brilliant. I love that one. Something like that. That was really good. That is, with a little click on it as well.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah, yeah.

Nick 52:40

That was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

That was good.

Nick 52:42

It was very resonant as well. I I think that would be very relaxing to listen to for about half an hour. And just hearing it morph and stuff, you'll probably get a sore face.

SPEAKER_07 52:51

Yeah. That was um that was I went to um a workshop with someone called Lori Lixenberg, and um she yeah, she kind of encouraged some of those sounds. That was quite tranquil, actually. It was really relaxing, wasn't it?

Nick 53:08

Like you could have a gong, you could have a gong bath in that.

SPEAKER_07 53:11

I'm trying to kind of because she's a really good experimental opera singer, so she really explores her whole kind of thing. And um, I think she said you start with that, you sort of start with that nasally. And I don't think she was teaching the click thing actually, but I'm not sure kind of it's really amazing because it doesn't sound like it's coming from a human. Yes, yeah, and and so we were all doing it as a as a group, and it it it really sounds like it's kind of somewhere else. It's mad.

Nick 53:53

Have you ever heard anything through like bone conductive um stuff as well? It's really interesting. Um, you know, deaf people um can can hear through bone conduction, um, where you get you, you know, it's almost like your skull's vibrated a little bit. Uh it's like on on some hearing aids and things, and it's really amazing like hearing all it's a bit like listening underwater or something, you know, when air's not vibrating, actually you're vibrating. Oh, wow, it's so good. That that's the sort of thing that sounds like when you find that sympathetic resonance of something and you can just hit it. That's what that was doing.

SPEAKER_07 54:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's I mean, I I I that's what I just love about the the human voice, really, because you know, every single voice is unique and it's just here waiting to be discovered and play about with, and you know.

Nick 54:40

Do you know what? I terminally cannot sing. It's really, really difficult. Like you know, some people say, Oh, anyone can sing, it's just training. Oh, no, I literally cannot sing.

SPEAKER_06 54:49

You can sing, come on, come on, honey. No, no, no, but sing for us, sing, sing little birdie, sing little birdie, sing, sing and laugh, laugh with us. We're gonna we're gonna create something that's that's not, you know, like yeah, forced, it's forced, and and we want you to do it, you know.

Nick 55:07

Yeah, even even with that, I won't be able to sing. It's it's it's just so you know, holding a note. I think I think I'm I'm just totally tone-deaf. It's really weird, but it doesn't stop me making sounds because I like doing it, you know. It's like fun. Just do stuff in my own range, but it's very difficult to try and copy something. I feel like my vocal, you know when they say like Axel Rose has got like seven octave range and stuff and Mariah Carey. I think I've got half an octave. Just this horrible flat Essex voice. Sagit, are you good at singing? Nah. I bet you are, I bet you are the bashment Mariah Carey.

Lora 55:41

No, no, I'm so not. I leave that down to the others. I no, I'm not a singer.

Nick 55:46

I would like to go and improvise though, because I love like making noises, and it's it's it feels like um like a bit like autistic stimming for me, like making noises as well, and doing like funny little things with your mouth.

SPEAKER_07 55:57

But I'd be completely up for for sort of creating an event and just anyone come along, you know, who wants to, and just just muck about with some sounds.

Nick 56:06

Because like, you know, drum circles and stuff where people are meeting up with pretty big for I don't know if people do that anymore.

SPEAKER_07 56:12

Actually, they do, they do in the Quaker Centre in uh Chelmsford every I can't remember which.

Nick 56:19

But I think you should I think you should find somewhere with really good resonance, like you know, under under an arch somewhere and have a little gathering, have a like a vocal circle.

SPEAKER_07 56:27

Yeah, tunnels, tunnels, yeah, tunnel, a tunnel circle. Yeah, definitely. I shall look out for a good spot in in Chelmsford.

Nick 56:34

We've got so many underpasses.

SPEAKER_07 56:36

Yeah, that's true.

Nick 56:37

It'll be good.

Lora 56:38

We found some good places, yeah.

Nick 56:40

Oh yeah, yeah, on my magical mystery tour. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 56:44

In Chelmsford, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick 56:46

Oh, I love the resonance. I'm always clapping. Especially when you're cycling your bike and you can just do a little bing on the on the bell or a little whoop.

SPEAKER_07 56:54

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I love I love vocalizing in churches and and um I mean I was then when when I was on um Toma, uh, we were lucky to to go to this place in Portugal, Studio 459. I think I've got the name right. It's on the phone. We were there for we were there for five nights. And um and then one day the people who run that um brilliant residency uh took us to this uh this massive monastery in in in Tamar, and um they showed us to this area with like brilliant uh resonance and and um showed me up the stairs and they said, Yeah, you know, kind of vocalize here, and that's what I did in this ancient pulpit. Wow, did you capture it? Yes, and also um we had a bit of a collective tomer um vocal thing in there, and it sounded amazing in there.

Nick 57:52

When um you know, this this is why people love singing in the shower, right? Yeah, because you get like a just a little bit of reverb, makes your voice sound better. Yeah, it must be incredible, you know, like incredible being in those spaces. It's why when you know you go in a cathedral or something, and yeah, you've got to be quiet and shh, you're like, no, everything sounds so good.

SPEAKER_07 58:09

I want to just scream and shout. Definitely. I mean that that that's that's um a good place to do it. I mean, most of the time Portugal.

Nick 58:18

Okay, well, Portugal's a good place. Hello, Studio 459.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

Oh, I love it.

Nick 58:33

One of my pet peeves at the moment is amplified buskers in town. Because I think like I love an acoustic guitar and a voice or something. People are just going doing karaoke now, right? They're just going down and playing a karaoke track and singing, but it's really loud as well. I think we need you to go down and do some actual like improvised vocalized busking.

SPEAKER_07 58:50

Be interesting to flush them out, get them out.

Nick 58:53

Come on. That would be interesting. Let's let's make let's let's make the high street interesting with some improvised vocalization. I'm s I do not want to hear someone singing Ed Sheeran anymore.

SPEAKER_05 59:05

No, no, no, we just want a bit of um see a bag of bottles, my bop ass and a pop my beer boys, and it became my bag, got a pussy to be oh my god, that do you know what?

Nick 59:21

If you'd started doing this in the 90s, you could have made that a ringtone and you'd be a millionaire. In fact, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a time machine. I'm gonna make a time machine go back because that was better than Crazy Frog.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

Oh, that's what it is. I was trying to think of what was that that that noise. It was Crazy Frog, that's it. What about how about security?

Nick 59:44

If anyone wants to try some vocal like vocal improvisation, where can they go?

SPEAKER_07 59:50

They can go to one of the best places to go and get randomly put together with a few people for like five to eight minutes on a stage is a place called it's is an event called Skronk that's been going for quite a while.

Nick 1:00:07

What a name!

SPEAKER_07 1:00:07

Yes, brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

Skronk, skronk, skronk, skrunk, skrunk, skronk, skrunk. You've been scrunked. Definitely. This gets scrunked.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:22

This gets grunk, man. So where is this? So scrunk.

Nick 1:00:27

Skrunk. It's so nice to say.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:29

In it? Isn't it? And it looks so great as well. We can see the word scrunk.

Nick 1:00:33

On a matopeague.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:35

Yes.

Nick 1:00:38

Yeah. Skrunk.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:39

Skronk is fortnightly at it. Unfortunately, it's all the way down in Deptford. Yeah. And it's in a place called Endeavour. And uh down in down in the basement. Oh, that had a nice.

Nick 1:00:51

Yeah, that's very, very resonant, isn't it? It really sounds like you're going into basement. Actually, someone wants to be let out of the basement. Yeah, it sounds like a basement for real.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:59

Um, and and that is brilliant. It's very, very friendly, very encouraging. Um, you can literally try anything you want to. Um anything goes there, you know. And um, so uh I really recommend that. Skronk. And they're actually going to Margate um sometime next month. They're gonna trial it in Margate because the guy Rick Jensen who um who started it sort of many, many years ago, he moved to Margate, and I think they're gonna be.

Nick 1:01:30

Of course he did.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:38

What do you mean?

Nick 1:01:39

Margate is just where everyone, all the artists have gone, haven't they?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:42

That's where they're going.

Nick 1:01:43

Yeah, it's artists on sea. Yeah. I'll tell you what, guys, I'll take it. I'm taking Skronk to Margate. Yeah, oh yeah, what a surprise.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:54

But no, but but but you can find them, yeah, Skronk, every month. I mean, you know, could set it up. Skronk, scrunk, scronk. You know, in Chelmsfield. I was just gonna say, franchise. They'd love it if we'd set it up, you know, somewhere down here.

Nick 1:02:08

Oh, well, I think you should take that. I think you should uh scronquiste. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:11

Skronk East sounds good. All right, I I'll chat with I'll chat with Nathan. He was the one, he's the one that hosts um uh Nathan and Seb host the one at at Deptford.

Nick 1:02:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:22

And um, yeah, maybe maybe I'll come along.

Nick 1:02:25

100% be strong. As long as I don't have to do laughing.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:28

Well, no, no, no, wait, that was that was very kind of like honestly, most most people that I know would have hated that thing when I went stop doing it though, please.

Nick 1:02:45

Oh I think you might have unlocked a new terror for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

I think I need you to take that. So every time every time we want to upset him, we just stick it on.

Nick 1:02:55

Honestly, if you want me to leave somewhere, just do that.

Sangita 1:02:57

Yeah, but it can be followed by the city.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:13

I've stopped now. Don't outstay your welcome, Joe.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

Never!

Nick 1:03:26

I know, I know, I know, I love it, I know, I love it. It's really, really cool. Um God, what was gonna say? Yeah, scrunky, we're getting scronky with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

I love it.

Nick 1:03:36

So we're gonna have we're we're so look, listeners. We have now developed, we are gonna have scronk east in Chelmsford. Oh, this is what I was gonna say, Caesar Omagus, or whatever it was. What was what was Chelmsford called in Roman times? Caesar O Ca Caesare Omagus or something like that? It's look it up, it's a really nice word to say. And I don't I can't say it.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:58

No, I like the sound of it.

Nick 1:04:00

I think you could do a whole performance of just one word.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:03

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Nick 1:04:05

Until it loses all meaning.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:06

I mean Yes. Yes, there was one, I've got this um book of old sound words that was put together by the London Sound Survey. Yeah, and they've got it all by ri different regions as well, and there's some interest in Essex words. Oh wow.

Nick 1:04:20

Well, that was the name of Chelmsford, was Caesar Caesar Omagus, right? Yeah, what's it what was the Essex word you got?

SPEAKER_07 1:04:25

No, no, one of the ones that I've got is um clangandering. Oh clangendeering. I sometimes say it clangeering, clangendeering, clangendeering, clangendeering, clangandering, clangandering, clangandering, clangendeering, clangendeering, clangendeering. Harvest horn. That's one of them as well.

Nick 1:04:47

Oh and you know Billy Wicks? That's a bar now. That's an Essex old Essex word. Clan engineering. Clangineering with the Billy Wicks. Oh God. Oh, where's where's where where's your Billy Wicks? It does sound like clang engineering, it's like you're gonna go clanging, but you know, you've got to take a compass with you.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:12

And I think I think it means something. Well, anyway, who cares? We we're we're we're we're just creating it.

Lora 1:05:18

We're we're Googling it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Now I've got a lot to Google when I get into it.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:21

I know engineering and also you know, engineering. I think it means um a worried state or something like that. Um and um what's the other one that I came across? So I can't I should have brought it with me, but um yeah, um Harvestorm Gle Gleaming Gleaming Bell Gleaming Bell is an old Essex um thing as well. I can't remember what it was what it was, but um but I quite like it's got that kind of gleaming bell something far away for me. Same as harvest horn.

Nick 1:05:58

I think gleaming bells like when

Lora 1:06:00

take the um wax wrapper off a baby bell to eat it and it's the smell you get yeah it was it was oh yeah it just reminds me of an old music haul called the the goldenzola the goldenzola um went off or something like that all right hey look look Joe Joe I Joe I'm gonna have to start wrapping up now because uh wrap up the baby bell I have to edit this wrap up the baby bell wrap up the baby bell oh never wrap up a baby bell come on I love them baby bells last forever they do you find a baby bell it's good to eat yes what do you what do you think about vegan baby bells I mean yeah don't really like vegan cheese no I like a lot of vegan stuff and I'm really on board with it but not not cheese forget about it make up your own vegan stuff falafals are much better but have you come across I'll show you the one I've got Vialife Vial Life um epic mature is the best vegan cheese I've ever come across at the moment it's probably more more now but uh but yeah but anyway um not that I'm vegan actually I'm now pescatarian but um I'm gonna wrap up wrap up we can talk about this when the mics are off go for it that's the word sangita actually means music it does mean so good there was a whole there was a whole song on the radio the other day um who was who sings it's such an amazing song it's like literally I heard it and I was like that sangit's theme tune honestly it's such a great song it's like a bangra song right it is a bangra song how'd it go upnass see look we need the banger later that's not me but it's upnas and get I can't sing it sorry Pri if you're listening I don't do Asian music so but I do know the song such a banger such a banger I can do the dance shall I try wrapping up again and with light bulb oh yeah light bulb yeah improvise improvisation it's ter it terri it scares me improvisation I feel like I'm just gonna fall into rote something that I just do normally I don't know what Sagittari can you wrap up yeah so we'd just like to say um thank you to our guest for coming in and giving us all this knowledge the wonderful Joe the wonderful Joe definitely no don't laugh again stop it Nick um special thanks to our ads over there thank you Adam Law Comedia in the house media studios are you creative in the Law Comedia House? See he really wants to wrap up he won't let me do it just freestyling having a try I'm improvising and then to our wonderful host Nick that's me that's you got big up to the other wonderful host which is me sangroop so please follow us on r dot you dot creative dotcast yes perfect there you go that's really hard to do that one see you soon thank you very much for having me oh yeah thanks so much Joe and let's improvise our way out goes that's like that's like a mobile phone and a phone ring